Episode 2- The Power of Storytelling for CPG Brands with Summer Singletary
In this episode, we speak with one of our favorite marketers in the biz, Summer Singletary, founder of Warmly, Agency. We talk about the importance of strong storytelling, the power of good creative, and listening to consumer feedback. You'll also hear Summer's predictions for upcoming trends and her top tips for creating impactful marketing strategies as a CPG brand on a budget.
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How to connect with Summer online: Website | Instagram | LinkedIn
Episode Key Moments:
Entrepreneurship journey from corporate job to agency founder.
Marketing advice for early-stage founders in the food and beverage industry.
Storytelling and branding for CPG brands.
Consumer insights and marketing optimization.
Consumer feedback and its importance in business.
The importance of quality content in marketing.
Marketing strategies for DTC brands with limited budgets.
Entrepreneurship, copywriting, and creativity.
Hiring a marketing agency or content team.
Marketing trends, psychedelic therapy, and herbal business.
Episode Transcript:
Daniella Allam: So I wanted to introduce Summer because Summer is amazing. And she's actually one of the reasons why I decided to take the jump into entrepreneurship, but we'll get into that juicy convo in a minute. But Summer Singletary is an herbalist, a cookbook author and a marketer. She founded Warmly, Agency to support emerging and change-making CPG brands in the natural product industry that aim to build equitable and sustainable businesses, challenge the status quo and create products with integrity. The agency provides marketing support and product copywriting, social media management and communication strategies. In her free time, Summer likes to play in the garden. So So show strangers pictures of her fluffy cat Luna, calm her nerves with reruns of Check, Please Bay Area and Antique Roadshow and cook cozy meals to ward off the endless coastal chill of San Francisco. So that's the Summer Welcome, Summer. We're so excited for this conversation.
Summer: I'm so stoked to be here. And I've been so inspired by your TikTok and all the content you've been putting out. And yeah, I'm so mutually inspired by your entrepreneurial journey too.
Daniella Allam: Well, and I feel like this podcast is like been years in the making, because I think our listeners should know that Summer and I met almost seven-plus years ago, almost pushing a decade here, when we were both working at Traditional Medicinals, which if you don't know is the number one herbal tea company in the US, the makers of Smooth Move, Throat Coat. So that's where Summer and I first got to know each other. And now fast forward all of this time we both are running our own businesses. And Summer was really instrumental to me at but I would love to hear like what that journey was for you going from having a corporate full-time job to being a an entrepreneur and embarking on this wild journey we call entrepreneurship.
Summer: Yeah, totally. And you know, what's funny about that story is like, it's cool how on different timelines your friends mutually inspire you, right? Because I remember, you were like, Hey, I've had friends do this, you could totally do this. If they can do it, you can do it. And it really pushed me over the edge to try it out. So yeah, the feelings are mutual. It's yeah, it really it really takes a village. And yeah, so what happened for me was I've always had this entrepreneurial spirit, I was lucky enough to have a few entrepreneurs in my family that really pushed me to not just have your own business, but also look at problem-solving from an entrepreneurial lens. So I was really raised that way. So whether I've been working in corporate or outside of corporate or doing both, I mean, this is a new world I feel like we go in and out of working with and for and in partnership with other people. You know, I think having that entrepreneurial spirit that looks at things fresh problem solving, risk-taking being okay to fail, reporting your findings, talking about them plainly with others, there's a lot of positives to having that spirit. So just in general, shout out to that. I think that's something we could all use a little bit more of. As far as the jump. I had this amazing collaboration called the Kosmic Kitchen, and it's still around today. I'm no longer a part of it, but I had it for 10 years was Sarah Benjamin. And we got this amazing offer while I was in corporate at Traditional Medicinals. To write a cookbook, which you can now find the Kosmic Kitchen Cookbook. And I'm an herbalist first marketer. Second is what I always say, though now, I'm kind of all of these things meshed into one.
Daniella Allam: I would say maybe those two in one.
Summer: Yeah, yeah. But that was the the linear path. And, yeah, I got this opportunity to write a cookbook with Sarah. And we took it and of course, that meant, you know, you, you can, you can follow all your dreams, but maybe not do everything at once. So I needed some more flexibility, right. So I had been working for four years at Traditional Medicinals had come up as a communications manager working with you having so much fun. And I really needed that flexibility and remote work, which now post post-pandemic is more of a given, but back then it wasn't. So that really fueled my jump. And then after the cookbook came out, I was able to build into an agency, which I have now, which is the warming agency where we're working with a few other partners in amazing creatives and brilliant minds with impact-driven brands.
Daniella Allam: I love it, I love it. And I think that jump, you know, when I saw you make that even though you say you know, I encourage you to do it, it really encouraged me as well. And it got me thinking about like, how could I do something like that, where I would have more freedom and work, you know, with values aligned clients, but but also, you know, embark on the journey of entrepreneurship, which, as we both know, has its high highs, and its low lows, what have been some of the things that you sort of learned and this like wild journey of entrepreneurship?
Summer: Oh, my gosh, there's so many things that I could say, I think, you know, first and for foremost, marketing things you love, is really important, or creating a brand that you love, I think it's easy to get caught up in trends and what's working and where folks are investing money, and you know, consumer feedback, and all of these things are relevant, do not get me wrong, but you really have to have a deep passion and a why to keep it going. Because it will be high and it will be low. So really just working from that, that place of passion and then layering on these more strategic items. Yeah,
Daniella Allam: that purpose, I think, and that's been sort of a theme. In a lot of my conversations with other guests. It's been that, you know, having that purpose than that North Star really helps you especially in the low times, and and maybe you start to get used to the fact that there are low times, right, and it is kind of a little bit of a roller coaster, and you start to get used to it. And then you start working with those times and say okay, well, maybe this is the time when I have to refine my strategy. Maybe it's when I have to go read a bunch of books or do some courses, or just like, adjust what I'm doing. And so I think it's it's such a common theme that I've heard across across the board, and especially in the CPG space, right, which we know is even is even more wild sometimes. And so I guess another question that that leads to is, if we have a lot of listeners that are likely founders and entrepreneurs in the very early stages of their journey, most likely in CPG, or food and beverage. What is like, if you had one thing to tell them in terms of marketing advice, what is the one thing you would tell them?
Summer: Oh my gosh, wow.
Daniella Allam: There's a lot I know there's a lot. There's gonna be a whole episode on its own. But
Summer: I would say something that's coming up for me now, you know, maybe not an order of importance, but a theme that I've seen with with passionate creatives, like I work with a lot of makers that are incredibly talented, whether that be herbalist or formulators, or you know foodies that love different flavors and different things. I think it's really easy for the creative mind to want to do a lot at once. Really from a marketing and an operational and you know, a sourcing perspective and all of the above. Choosing your hero product or a few hero products is really important when launching. Mm hmm. It really makes it confusing for your systems, your team and your insights to launch with a bunch of products at once. And so, that's not to say when you're you know, working at a local stage and different things was like that, that you can't do that kind of beta testing moment. But I would say if and when, because there's no right way to scale your business. But if and when you do decide to launch nationally, or get a big investment behind something and go on a kind of wider, bigger scale, having those things more narrowed when launching can be really helpful. That's just love
Daniella Allam: that that's I mean, that's a big theme I'm seeing too. It's like, focus people. Just focus, focus on like, the things that are going to actually be impactful. Because I think, like you said, so many founders are creatives are visionaries have like just a lot of ideas. But you either need to do that for yourself, or you need to have somebody on your team that can help you strategize, where do you put your efforts because, like your resources, time, energy money are limited, they're not that you're not pulling from an unlimited well, and so you have to be able to focus in order to really write drive results. And I think we see that with a lot of successful brands, right? Like, I can't think of one successful brand, right, that launch with like 30 different products in five different categories, right, like that usually doesn't hit as much as you really coming in with a strong point of view and a narrow focus about what it is that you do. And why are you so different than everything else that's out there. Right, especially in a place. And I think in a market that we're seeing that is so saturated, right, there's so many products, people are bombarded all the time with messaging with products with by this by that. So it also helps you and your business, I think long term to be differentiated amongst that see of a lot of stuff, right?
Summer: Totally. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of that feedback is around efficiencies, right. And, and preventing burnout, and preventing, you know, overspending and all of those different things. There are definitely situations where people have done that and been successful. But if you're looking to take the shorter path, that would be the advice. Right,
Daniella Allam: right. You might be successful, but at the expense of what right, like something else has had to give maybe it's your sanity that had to give when you did that. And I think that's something it's a theme I also see with a lot of my clients, too, is like, how can we preserve your sanity? Like, how can we make things just easier and more efficient for you. So it's not just so overwhelming, and you're all the time overwhelmed trying to put out fires? Because that's not that's not a great way to live? And that's a recipe for burnout, as we know very well. Yeah. Yeah. So what about like marketing and content in particular, is so exciting for you? Because let me tell you, I mean, Summer is one of the best marketers I've ever come across. Right, you are so powerful in terms of thinking creatively. And strategically. Why is that so exciting for you? And why does it come? Maybe so naturally for you?
Summer: Oh, my gosh, well, first of all, Daniella, I want to say that means a lot coming from you. Because the feelings are mutual. I was I felt like I think when I was coming up at Traditional Medicinals I, you know, working with working with you and you having faith in me, I was like, well, she thinks I'm good at my speech. Oh, yeah. You know, because I, I just began to see myself as a marketer in that role, you know, because that was the I didn't go to school for it. So yeah, there is some natural piece to it. Well, you know, I would say, being a creative and being passionate about things can make you a little bit you know, of a great spokesperson, right? I don't know that I would do well in marketing, you know, just speaking plainly, like, I couldn't do this. But you know, if I was working in oil, or, you know, if I was working in fracking, which I wouldn't do, you know, it's nothing that I could say there, you know, so I mean, not to use an extreme example, but you get the point there. I really do believe that it I don't even know if it's marketing. If you believe in the product at that point. I think it's bigger than that. You know, you're passionate you want to tell people about something that's that can change their lives that it can improve their lives. So I've been really fortunate enough to work with brands that are in alignment with my values, so it comes a lot easier and then I would just naturally say that I have an artistic spirit at my core. So I like to figure things out and figure out how to make things fun and speak to people. Yeah.
Daniella Allam: Well, that speaking to people I think leads me perfectly to my next question, which is around storytelling, because I think that's another area like that a lot of people don't fully sometimes grasp with marketing and the importance of telling a good story. And in particular, something your incredible app is using the right words, right to tell a story to give a feeling to convey a brand personality? Why is that so important for CPG brands? And in particular, those that maybe are just starting in their journey
Summer: Yeah, you know, I think sometimes we think about marketing products a lot, right? Like, this product is really great. And what we're really I would say, you know, we're really great at and the things that we worked at, we're great at all of that. But one of the really big strengths that I've witnessed with great marketers is they're great at building a brand, right? So building a brand is so much bigger than just building a product, right? Because you're you're, you're creating brand loyalty, you're known for certain values. And so in that your voice needs to be compelling and unique as well. So it's memorable. So yes, we do need products to move. But we also, you know, need to communicate to people because there might be eventually right, if you're first on the market, that's great. But you won't always be the only one on the market. Right? There might be five other options to choose from. So why is somebody going to spend their hard-earned dollars on your on your company and do it over and over again, so making sure that that voice is strong and those values are clear? And they're authentic? Yeah.
Daniella Allam: Yeah. And so it almost also sounds like it's differentiation as well, again, you know, going back to that point, what's like, the most common mistake that you see early-stage brands and companies make when it comes to whether it's their branding, their content, or their storytelling.
Summer: So I work with a lot of supplement brands and impact-driven brands. And so while all of these better-for-you benefits, or, you know, let's say, certifications and storytelling are, they're all important elements to drip over time, explaining too many benefits and too many products over too many products all at once is overwhelming to anyone. So really narrowing down those communication efforts, you know, not putting too many benefits on the front of packaging. It's not that we can't talk about all those things, but they need to be at different stages of the journey.
Daniella Allam: Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think that, it's definitely quite common to be like, let's just put everything everything that is good about this thing. But I think we're what sounds like a theme that work coming up in this combo is like narrow your focus, right? Like what's going to be the actually most important purchase driver for that person in that category? Because I guarantee you that there's like, probably just like three main purchase drivers, the rest are probably secondary or tertiary. And if you try to put everything on there, just to see what sticks, it's very likely that you're just gonna get people glazing over, right, especially in an in a retail environment, where, you know, people have just seconds to make decisions. So lead with your most important benefits and your most important point of view. First is something I like to kind of say as well, in addition to that, right and, and I know in particular herbalists, that's a really hard thing for herbalists, right because there's so much care, there's so much thought that goes into it, they want to talk about the milligrams, they want to talk about, like all the different benefits, they want to talk about the traditional usage or whatever scientific usage. But that's just really overwhelming. And I think, as consumers as well, you know, another thing I like to say is, you're not your consumer, but you should take things from your journey as a consumer and apply them to your business. And I guarantee you, the vast majority of us don't like to be overwhelmed with a lot of information on a product.
Summer: Totally. And you know, this from you're such an expert in consumer insight. It's like, well, if we put too much at the front, we're not going to know it's going to work. It's not that those things can't be changed over the time. It Over time, you know, a great example of that, you know, is email marketing, we can A/B test things right, we can understand and segment and understand. And so that kind of logic applies to every piece of your marketing materials and your packaging. And so all of these things can be changed over time. But giving you know, those communication points, their own spotlight and chance to succeed or fail is good. Let's see what happens and learn
Daniella Allam: from what happens get data get learnings. And it's true. When you muddy the waters with too many variables. You can't tell, was it my new packaging? Or was it my new benefit? Was it the new flavor? Like what was it that drove that lift, or that decline in my business, and so you know, keep your variables clean, and any test and learn that you're doing right, whether it's on product, whether it's on packaging, whether it's on email, keep them as clean as possible. So you can actually make good inferences, and then you can dynamically adapt. I think that was another thing that I really admired in the way that you I saw you kind of run social media and and learnings there was that I saw you really kind of take every month and just be like, what did we learn? Okay, Let's optimize let's, let's go in harder on these things. And, and I'll just leave it to like the end of the year, or, you know, every six months to think about oh, like what what should we do? What have we learned? It's sort of this continuous learning process that I felt like was very clever that you implemented. Can you talk a little bit about that? And like, why that that's so helpful, and like, maybe get your results faster?
Summer: That is a great insight that I hadn't really thought about before. But it's really true. I mean, I think when you talk to any social media manager, you're kind of, you kind of have to do that, right? Because the trends are changing at such a fast level. So it does, it does spearhead your growth, I think a social media manager that's been in the any, you know, business for a long time is a great person to get consumer insights from, including the Consumer Response Team, I see that constantly under leveraged. They're constantly getting real time feedback on what products people want, what people like, what people don't like, etc. So yeah, I mean, you're really close to the consumer, I think, you know, that's probably the easiest way to put it. And you're, you're visible to the whole team and the customers, right? So you're getting emails from the board or funneled down to you from the board or the founder or different VPs a different teams have ideas or edits or notes. And so you're constantly put to the task of restating what is working to prove to show proof of concept. And publicly, you know, learning that some things aren't working, right. So it is that entrepreneurial mindset really, that I think a lot of social media managers have to attend to. We're being being more open to succeed and to fail and everything in between, right? And fail, it's not really a fail at that point. If you're learning something from it,
Daniella Allam: You're learning and you're optimizing from it, because I think, yeah, sometimes I also see some teams that get really sort of stuck in old assumptions, right? And like, don't have the time or energy or moment to do that. Reflection and that analysis on like, what's working, what's not, and what are we willing to let go of, because sometimes we get so attached to like, well, but I love this kind of posts, and it's like, but my friend, if this is not doing any engagement for you, it's not driving your brand, it's not connecting with your consumer, maybe it's time we got to let it go. Right?
Summer: Totally. And that's why you know, I think things are always changing, but you know, if you can even just think about your content and, and buckets. That's how people I've been thinking about things for a long time. And there's lots of conversation of that changing, but I think for at least analysis purposes and brainstorming purposes, the buckets really makes sense, right? So let's say you have a product bucket, and then you have a plant feature bucket, and then you have a recipe bucket. Let's keep it there for conversations sake even though you like four to eight probably. Well, if you're seeing that over and over again leading with the plant is successful, then why not talk about the product through the lens of the plant versus you know, you know, trying to be kind of old school and just show a picture straight facing of, you know, the product shot? You know, it's like not that we don't want to weave that in every once in a while. But let's think about the context and what's performing and learn from that and lean into success
Daniella Allam: right and be open to things being like different than you expect. And, and I think the point you made also have like the consumer response, or the team that is on the consumer response, frontlines, has a lot of insights, right? And they have a lot of things to share, because they're hearing firsthand from consumers. What are the questions? What are the things that they're resonating with? So if you're a founder, and you're like, not aware of what's going on the consumer response, frontlines, you should like go talk to this team right now. Because they probably have a lot of things that you might not be aware of, like, I think, even brands that have been around for 40-plus years are constantly learning things from their consumers. And just as real time, feedback and conversation, right, that is happening. It's I think we're also moving away from this, like, old school kind of model of like, we're just putting out stuff and people are consuming, and we just don't get to it's not a two-way combo, it's just a one-way combo. And I think consumers now are expecting and rewarding the brands that do open up that conversation that, that take their thoughts and their ideas into consideration, that listen to them about what they have to say and what resonates with them. Right. So I feel like it's also a commitment to serving your consumer in the best way possible.
Summer: Yeah. And I would say like, just to put out an idea, they're like, Well, how do I do this? So I mean, for me, that would look like having your, your person that's in charge of social media or your department, putting together a monthly report, having your consumer response team put together a monthly report on, you know, how many complaints there are, what were the top complaints? What were the the top praise? And you know, showing verbal examples? What were the most engaging posts? What were the least engaging posts? Why do we think that doesn't have to be an incredibly complex report, but doing it at a cadence is great, just like, you know, you know, taking a walk every day, or, you know, doing something nice for yourself, you know, it doesn't have to be this insane protocol, but just making sure you're doing it at a cadence where that muscle gets stronger. And the other thing that I would say, is just yeah, just really listening to consumer feedback. I see this, I haven't studied it enough. So this is like maybe a hot take. But just my intuition over the years of doing this for gosh, now, like almost a decade, is that a lot of times we'll see the numbers and say, Oh, well, there was only three complaints out of how many customers and how many followers? I think that's kind of a false assumption. Because the, if you're seeing a pattern, even if it's a few people, the amount of energy that it takes for somebody to reach out and actually complain, like, think about how many times the average, you know, I don't do that very often that holds a little more weight than just the few statistics that you see on the report. That's something that I've been mulling over over the last few years is like, I don't know, if we're framing this quite the right way. So just really taking that into consideration.
Daniella Allam: And probably because behind that, like three complaints, there's probably 30 or more people that maybe think the same thing but didn't take the time to address that complaint. And I think sometimes at some companies, it's it's sort of a slow process to get to, like, learn that, but eventually, you will see, and I've experienced that in my career that if it's something that keeps coming up, right, and it's coming up for years, yes, it behooves you to listen to them. And when you do the change, or when you kind of address the issue, you will see a lift, right? You will see that because the consumers will reward you addressing their issues and concerns. And I think that's a really good point. Is that, like, the complaints you're getting are probably a sliver of the real complaints that are out there. Right? If it's something that it'd be starts to become a pattern. So listen to your people, right? Like, at the end of the day, like this is this is a hill I'm willing to die on right which is like your consumers are the engine of your business. Without them you have no business, right? Like I don't care how good your products what your distribution, what your retail is, who your supplier is. I don't care about any of that. If your consumer is not buying your product, and is not connecting with your product, not just once, but coming back for repeat, then you have big problems on your hands. And so everything you do should be to serve them better, and to address their needs better. And that and they will reward you with that right? Like you'll get the money in the bank will come if you're able to serve their needs really well.
Summer: Yeah, yeah. And we see it time and time again, it's like, new customers are great. And that's definitely a way to fast growth. But brands with loyal followings, you know, that is that is the stability factor in your business.
Daniella Allam: That is definitely the stability. And because the other thing I see a lot is right, brands get really excited when they launch a new product or the whole brand. And they get like a lot of this first-time trial, right? And it's like, oh, great, or like, or we're gonna get this distribution and all this pipeline filled, great. And then it's like, well, how are you going to sustain that, like, you got to keep that going. Especially if you want to build a thriving business long-term, right? If you just want to be successful in one year and then be out of it, then maybe that's fine. But most most of the founders that that we interact with, you know, want to build sustainable, profitable, long-term businesses. And so if you want to do that, then you have to think kind of creatively as to how are you going to keep this consumer engaged. And how are you going to keep them in your franchise in your brand? When other competitors come for them, because other people will come for them? We know it as consumers, right? Everybody's vying for your attention. So I think, you know, driving that repeat and that loyalty is, is has become a big part of some of the conversations I've been having with folks. And I think that's where my next question leads, which is, I saw your posts on LinkedIn that quality content is what matters more than the algorithms or the ads. So why is that the case? Like why does quality creative and content really matter?
Summer: Yeah, you know, this is a great, a great thing to talk about, you know, I've seen a lot of changes in this over thoughts about this over the years, so. But I would say it's becoming more and more true, since I've said it. So you know, you'll even see it. Now, a lot of the ad platforms even are optimizing so it's so much easier for anybody to use it, which I'm very excited about, right? Like, I love my technical ad buyers. And I also love the democratization of these tools to where any small business owner can come in, and easily decide what type of ad they want to make, what part of the funnel they want it to be on, what they want the budget to be, and just let the thing do its thing. So that is great. Now with that side, I feel like there used to be a lot of lever pulling on the day-to-day or, you know, frequently to kind of like, you know, tweak the system, like almost like you're playing a game or something. And now that's not so much the case. It's more about is the creative good. Does it hit like pulling these different levers, you know, of, on the back end of like, how you set up your ads specifically is not it matters. But what matters more than ever now is the creative which is honestly great, right? Because now we're down to understanding what's resonating with our audience that we're targeting. Right. So I think a lot of times it used to be like, well, how are you setting up this ad campaign? And that had a lot of weight, and now we're having more conversations about creative. So what does that mean? Right? So that's great news. But what does that mean? What that means is that if you do not have a creative budget or a very creative person on your team from the get go, ideally, both. It's going to be really hard for you to have, you know, social media and advertising that hits. I think there's it's easy to just kind of say we'll just throw something together. I think it's getting even more competitive creatively, and just throwing something together is no longer acceptable, quite frankly, we need creative people hired and paired with strategic thinkers and creative strategist, roles rolls. It's really important.
Daniella Allam: It's true. Yeah, say that again. I mean, you have to invest, and I think some folks don't really like to hear that sometimes, right because it's like another thing, I have to invest money, time, energy into, like, really like, I just have a great product, like it should just sell on its own or, you know, I'm not, I'm not a marketer, I don't know anything about this stuff, so I'm not going to do it. And it's like, you're not setting yourself up for success thinking like that, right? And you might not necessarily have the budget now, which I think is fair, but then try to think of creative ways to maybe start to hit those goals, and then start building towards having that budget, right, because it's not something that you're going to be able to put off for very long. And that you won't really see a lot of movement and success until you're able to start connecting with people on that level. You know, one of the things I was talking with a great photographer, who's gonna be on the podcast as well, on this idea that like, visuals and creative in particular, connect with people emotionally, right? And so, and the conjunction of like, the visual plus, the copy, does like an even bigger job of connecting with folks emotionally. So if you're just staying to like the functional stuff, and you're not really coming in with that creative, that's really compelling and engaging the people, you're really losing that chance, right to really hit them in the heart, and really connect with them on that level that is more likely to give you the results that you're looking for. So it I mean, I guess that leads me to a question, which is, you know, a lot of people will be like, Yeah, but I don't have a budget, like, I have like no money, or I have only a couple 100, or maybe a couple $1,000. To put out this, like, what can I do? Like? Do you have any thoughts or tips and tricks or just guidance for them, as they get ready to maybe get more revenue, and then be able to have more more budget, or maybe get an outside injection of capital, which is maybe what they need?
Summer: Yeah, I would say, luckily, you know, a lot of founder-led brands are led by really passionate people. So I would say, leaning into your strengths, if you're a great writer, then LinkedIn is probably your spot, you know, something that's more of a written platform is probably going to be good for you, maybe doing sliders where there's text posts, like, if you're really great at photography, natural, even if it's an iPhone doesn't matter, you know, then let's lean into that if you're really great at humor, then maybe some fun video founder videos are going to be good for reels and Tiktok. So really think about your strengths as a founder or your team's strengths. Like maybe you only have, you know, one person helping with marketer marketing, and they have a certain skill set, just go ahead and lean into that, right, because you're working with the scrappy budget at that point. I'd say once you have more of a budget where you actually have a couple 1000, you know, to delegate, which worked really well for me, things are always changing. But the past few years has been to work with creatives on retainers, so whatever your strategy is, let's say you're going work video heavy, you know, maybe there's somebody up and coming out there that you could partner with who was a great video creative, where you could give them a retainer, and it could create some security in their life. It's a portfolio builder, and you all are growing together. You know, I think creative solutions like that are really important. And just also not getting into the trap of putting so much into your when you do get capital. I think it's really easy to put, especially as a DTC brand to put so much money in your ad budget, but not enough money in your creative budget. And when why that's important to know is because a lot of times there's not enough money in the creative budget to respond and create content for each part of the funnel. And if you do have really great content, then you're gonna get more efficiencies on your ads. Right? Right. So and probably speak to your customer more on an organic and paid level, right if you have that better creative budget. So just making sure there's a healthy balance; obviously, you're gonna want to larger ad spend, especially if you want return on ad spend immediately as a DTC brand. But just making sure you save some slice of the pie for the creative team.
Daniella Allam: Yeah. And I also really love what you said about Lean Going into your strengths and I think, yeah, don't don't think that because that you don't have any strengths. First of all, because you likely have a strength, if not a few that you could leverage in this in this space. Right. And like, I think the one that I get excited to hear about from founders is when they're like, I'm like, are you okay being? Are you comfortable on video on camera? And if they're like, Yeah, I have no problem with that. I'm like, Well, you just solved a big issue, right? Like, especially in the age of TikTok, I feel like that's something that, you know, not a lot of people feel comfortable with. But if you do feel comfortable with please leverage it, right, and you have a low budget, please use that, right? Like, that's already a big tool that can really spread your reach far and wide. And, and I like that, because I think sometimes, a lot of founders that I talk with have a tendency sometimes to focus on the things that are lacking, and to focus on the things that, like, they're stressed about, and overwhelmed about. And I think if you have a good product, and you have a purpose, and you have a Northstar, and your mission aligned, you you have strengths, right, you have things that you can share with others. It's just a matter sometimes of reframing how you're viewing yourself and what you're bringing to the table. Especially I've seen it with BIPOC entrepreneurs in particular. But, but really, across the board, I think it's a very common thing, especially if it's your first time doing something like this.
Summer: Yeah. And we all have a unique story to tell. And just the fact that you were brave enough to start a business is so inspiring, right? It's insane. Like, that is a wild choice. And so cool. And there's no one else like you, but there's stories that you have that other people have a similar recipe in life, right? They have similar experiences. And so you sharing that really helps others on their path. And I actually think not sharing that as a huge disservice to the world, not just your product and building profit, but actually to the world. You know, because there's other people like you that you're gonna be like the catalyst on their journey.
Daniella Allam: Exactly. And, and you Yeah, that bravery alone, right is a story that alone is content, perhaps that can fire your content, it can inspire your creative, so don't make I guess, the mistake of feeling like you don't, you don't have anything in your pocket to because no matter where you come from, you probably have something to say. And it probably informs the product or brand that you're launching, right? So um, I wanted to talk a little bit about copywriting because the other thing Miss Summer Singletary is amazing is being an incredible copywriter that Chat GPT has not been able to replace yet. And I've literally proven this in the last month actually with her, and so I wanted to ask you, Summer, or what is the hill that you're willing to die on when it comes to copywriting?
Summer: Oh, my gosh, that is a great question. Yes, I'm proud to say that not yet. But who knows, maybe we'll all just be chillin’ on a beach in a year for now. Because there's, there's no AI that has got it under control.
Daniella Allam: But not yet. Certainly, AI doesn't have it yet. Right. And that those what's interesting to see,
Summer: yeah, well, luckily, just speaking to that briefly, you know, I would say that you know, the tone and the inflection and the word choice is not quite there yet. And it's all about what data you input is what you get out. But there's still a unique thought process and creativity. So that's probably the hill I'm willing to die on is break all the rules. You know, right, like your brain and your unique experience can put together different ideas that maybe seemingly don't belong. You can put together clever concepts, you can, you know, be creative, and ways that maybe at this point in time AI can't where you can put a unique flair to write and a lot of times it's copywriters. We're making other creative suggestions of what goes alongside it visually where it shows up contextually. So really, you know, kind of bridging that line between I'm a copywriter, and I'm also a content strategist, right or a creative strategist where we're also informing how this shows up in the world contextually. So yeah, be creative, break all the rules. I'm talking like, just pen to paper, don't hold back, I always try to just put it all out there on the paper and then edit after, right? Like, some of the best ad copy isn't 100% grammatically correct, or you're making up words or all those different things. That was something that was really challenging to me when I first started copywriting. And I didn't see myself as a copywriter is, you know, I was always an incredible storyteller, but I wasn't necessarily a spelling and grammar nerd. And I really had to put in my 10,000 hours to get there. But I would say that actually worked in my favor, right? I looked at the I looked at things like a story, and I looked at things creatively, and all those other things could be learned. And sometimes those things need to be broken.
Daniella Allam: Hmm, I love that. And I think when in doubt, if you have the budget, the other thing I'll say is hire a good copywriter like software, right? Um, you know, I see it all the time. It's like, sometimes we're like, oh, like when we could just write it right? And you're just like, do something. But if you're not in that mindset of like, playing with words on on a regular basis, I certainly am not. So I'm always amazed where it's like when I when I do something, or when somebody else does it, and then we send it to Summer. And then she does her magic and like, point five seconds, and you're like, "What?!" This is exactly why you hire a great copywriter and somebody that knows what they're doing. So if you have the budget, please invest in good copywriting being as well, because especially as your brand grows, that voice and that tone, and that personality really needs to come across all these different touch points. And it should be a surround sound experience, it shouldn't be like one thing sounds like it's a different voice than something else. Right? It should be sort of this cohesive journey that people are on. And if you you know, if you don't have the funds, obviously just take some of the tips that Summer gave you. And I think that's a really good one like, that's one I'm going to take actually from this, which is don't try to edit as you're writing, you know, like, let it come first and then do the editing. That alone is probably going to save some folks a lot of headaches.
Summer: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I think that's a great example, you know, of anything, it's like, if you think about the five foundational items that an expert could help with, right, so like a copywriter, it's probably brand voice and packaging copy, and probably the product pages right or like the homepage, it's like, Sure, maybe you can't afford the for the copywriter to do everyday social media posts at this time. But those foundational items, so thinking about where you can have an expert that has over 10,000 hours and has experience and they can just like you know, pour fuel into your business from the start, right? So make your life easier. And then you can use those learnings and those assets to inform everything else. Right. So you're not starting from scratch.
Daniella Allam: Yeah. And I think that leads me perfectly to my next question as well, which is, What should folks be looking for? When they're looking to hire a marketing agency or social or content team? Like, what are some of the qualities and things they should be looking for in those kinds of partners?
Summer: Um, for creative agencies... I mean, I would say having industry experience is definitely a plus. I mean, I guess you could make the argument that sometimes taking a risk on somebody that has a different perspective from a different industry could be a good thing. All but I would say in general, having industry experience can be really helpful, right, especially in the natural products industry, especially even more so within that the supplement industry. You know, there's the compliance factor, which a lot of people go to us for; there's certain languaging and different things you can only use approved, or, you know, regulated by the FDA. So yeah, I think industry experience is a big one. I would say if you're impact-driven, definitely pairing with another impact and purpose-driven agency, right? I think it's really easy to get caught up in the buzzwords or what's popular or, you know, all the data which is really important, but really aligning with a why with every team that you're working with, whether that be an accountant, or a creative agency or whatever. I think that that's super important. I'm, I'm a big proponent of B Corp. And like, for instance, that's a great lens to look for. Are they a B Corp, you know, company, you know, aligned with people and planet? I think then you're kind of talking the same talk, and your North Stars are similar. So that's great. Also, you know, looking for just testimonials and talking to other clients, especially if you're making a big investment, like, Who have they worked with before? Could you get linked up with their previous clients and see what their experience was like or read a case study? Yeah, and just do you resonate with what they've done before? I mean, I think it's a little intuitive to that level.
Daniella Allam: Yeah, those are those are really, those are really helpful because I think it's such a big step that a lot of companies get into in the early stages, right? And I think the tips you gave are gonna be really helpful to kind of do that first pass or that first slide. Okay, let's see, do they? Do they fit these X, Y, Z things that I need and are aligned with my brand? Um, as we wrap up, one of the things I don't want to miss the opportunity to ask you because you are when I asked people like, who knows what's going to be hot? It's Summer. Like you told me about TikTok, like, a million years before TikTok was a thing. Like there's so many examples of that, where I'm like, you've been so way ahead of the curve on so many things that I feel like this would be a great value to our listeners. So what are some trends or things that you're seeing? Or that you might that you're liking or that you think might be big?
Summer: That's so funny. I feel like we're both that way. But
Daniella Allam: No, I feel like you're waving our trend trendsetter and trend nowhere, like, you know, what's cool, know what's cool?
Summer: Well, yeah, I know. I don't know what it maybe it's too much time online over the years. But just curiosity, but yeah, I mean, you know, I think as far as there's a lot of different things that you could say, for marketing and for business. As you know, I'm really passionate about plants and wellness, and equitable wellness and healing and even spirituality. And so that's where a lot of my time, outside of, you know, inside and outside of this, this this world is natural products industry world where my where my curiosities lean. And so, and I think that'll affect the way that we create business, right, how we're collectively changing our minds, and what we value as a culture and cultures. And so I think something that I'm really already seeing is, you know, psychedelic therapy and those kinds of products, we're already seeing that there's a lot of capital investment and that I think we have to be really careful about how we do that in a conscious way, right? There's a lot of indigenous traditions and ancestrally passed down wisdom. And it's like, whose proprietary information and intellectual property does that belong to? And are we like giving back to those communities that have stewarded over the years? I think that's something that remains to be seen. But I'm still very excited about the prospects because it's really helping folks with PTSD or childhood trauma, and I'm definitely a person that engages in psychedelic therapies. And, yeah, I think it's the time that it's maybe okay to be open to that it's decriminalized in parts of the Bay Area. And yeah, I'm a big proponent, and I think that it will definitely continue to grow.
Daniella Allam: Yeah, that's a good one. That's such a good one. And it's one of those things, right? Where, like, I think, yeah, like you said, we're in these early stages of like, the laws kind of accommodating it, people becoming more open to it, people looking for alternative solutions to some of these issues. And but yeah, there's still a lot of questions about what that will mean but, but certainly, I can get behind that one. For sure. I think that's really exciting. So tell us where as we wrap up, where can folks find you and where can they get connected and work with you or book a consult? Yeah, tell us.
Summer: Yeah. So you can find us at www dot warmly dot agency. And there you can book at a free intro call if you're looking for a consultation or copywriting support or maybe content strategy or development; we are ready, willing, and able to support you. And yeah, a lot of times, that first call is simply you sharing what you're looking for and me or somebody on the team doing a brief audit of what you already have and sharing how we might be able to support you. So please don't hesitate to to find us there. And then we also do myself, Jacqueline Smith, and Zoe Gardener, along with 200 plus, you know, emerging herbal industry folks. There's a conference that happens once a year called Emblossom. It's called the Emblossom Herbal Business Conference. So if you do happen to be an herbalist, it's creating a product business. It's a great place for emerging brands and changemakers to learn about the industry laws, formulation, strategies, sustainability, equitable business building, and just having a general sense of community where you can ask others like, what's working, what's not, and how do we make a better place for all of us to live and thrive? So that's a really great place to so I
Daniella Allam: Love it. Big plug for Emblossom. Yeah. Such an amazing, beautiful community.
Summer: Yeah, incredible. Yeah. It's just fun, actually. So there's one takeaway,
Daniella Allam: just come for the fun, just come from the vibes, come for the vibes. And then you'll learn something in addition to that. Yeah. Awesome. And so we'll put the link to your LinkedIn as well, on the show notes. And I as always, every conversation with you is such a pleasure. And I'm sure we might have you back. Talk more deep things depending on what our listeners are asking us to know more about.
Summer: Thank you so much, Daniella. And I'm really excited about what you're building and you're just such an incredible resource for emerging brands. I love working with you and I love the work that you're doing so really grateful for you having me.
Daniella Allam: Oh same. the feeling is mutual. Thank you so much. Bye
Summer: Bye.